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	<title>Climbing Extreme &#187; Black Diamond</title>
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		<title>Different kinds of carabiners</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2011/07/different-kinds-of-carabiners/930</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2011/07/different-kinds-of-carabiners/930#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[equipment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ange]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Attache 3D]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Austrialpin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ball lock]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Black Diamond]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[carabiner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DMM]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dogbone]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Easy Classic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Helium]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kong]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[locking]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[non-locking]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Petzl]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Positron]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quickdraw]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[screw gate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Shield]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sling]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wild Country]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wire Safe Gate]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[During the time I&#8217;ve been climbing, I&#8217;ve bumped into many kinds of carabiners and quickdraws. I have gradually built a certain view on them, especially what comes to ice climbing. As a result, while waiting for the next season and upcoming Outdoor Show, I thought to write down my thoughts about them + my experiences [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the time I&#8217;ve been climbing, I&#8217;ve bumped into many kinds of carabiners and quickdraws. I have gradually built a certain view on them, especially what comes to ice climbing. As a result, while waiting for the next season and upcoming Outdoor Show, I thought to write down my thoughts about them + my experiences on carabiners and quickdraws that belong to my &#8220;standard&#8221; rack.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020881.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_singlepic924" >
	<img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-left" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/924_watermark_450x_p1020881.jpg" alt="p1020881" title="p1020881" />
</a>
<br />
<small>Picture above: There they are, my standard rack carabiners and quickdraws.<br />
</small></p>
<p><strong>What&#8217;s important:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Clearclip nose &#8211; It makes it just that much easier to grab it from your harness, as well as clip off whether it&#8217;s screw, rope or webbing. Right now there&#8217;s a wide selection of light clearclip carabiners available. There&#8217;s just no reason to get anything else.</li>
<li>Weight &#8211; Weight reflects directly to everything you do. In carabiners, especially what comes to carabiners used in quickdraws, it adds up fast. It&#8217;s not perhaps a reason to replace your old carabiners, but when ever you buy new ones, you should get light ones.</li>
<li>No auto-locking mechanisms &#8211; Auto-locking mechanisms tend to freeze up and generate a great deal of difficulties. I&#8217;ve been in a situation where my Petzl william ball lock froze up to the point that I had to spend about 30 minutes to get it open. I&#8217;m not planning to get to such situation again.</li>
<li>Smooth and acurate gate operation &#8211; It&#8217;s important while clipping, also note that if it&#8217;s locking carabiner, the screw operation should be smooth. Often the &#8220;smoothness&#8221; translates to quality and quality affects overall durability and safety of your gear.</li>
</ul>
<p>People, especially ones that do plenty of rock climbing, talk about durability too. In my opinion it&#8217;s not as much of an issue on ice, as there&#8217;s lot less dirt &#8211; thus carabiners do not wear down as much. I actually have different set of carabiners for ice, indoor and rock climbing exactly for this reason. Well, as ice climbing is my primary sport, my rock and gym carabiners are mostly ones I&#8217;ve purchased for ice climbing&#8230; even the auto-lockers which I purchased before I knew their freezing problems. <img src='http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><strong>Quickdraws and carabiners on my standard ice rack</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>3x <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screw Gate in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=2601&amp;name=Black%20Diamond%20%20Positron%20Screwgate">Black Diamond Positron Screw Gate</a> <em>(weight 56g)</em> &#8211; I use these for building anchors. While a bit old already, they&#8217;re pretty light and proven to be reliable good quality pieces of equipment.</li>
<li>3x <a title="Petzl Attache 3D in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4478&amp;name=Petzl%20%20Attache%203D">Petzl Attache 3D</a> <em>(weight 55g)</em> &#8211; My newer set of anchor building carabiners. Slightly larger but still lighter than Positrons. Good grip on locking screw.</li>
<li>1x <a title="Mammut Bionic Mytholito in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4481&amp;name=Mammut%20Bionic%20Mytholito">Mammut Bionic Mytholito</a> <em>(weight 58g)</em> &#8211; My belay carabiner. Slightly hevier than Attache, but I like having different kinds of carabiners for different purposes. As anchor building carabiners get in touch with protection and tend to develop sharp edges it&#8217;s good idea to keep them away from belay loop. The locking screw is slightly slippery, but other vice good quality.</li>
<li>1x <a title="Mammut Bionic HMS in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=9710&amp;name=Mammut%20Bionic%20HMS">Mammut Bionic HMS</a> (weight 72g) &#8211; My large anchor building carabiner; the one I tie clove hitches and use for organizing stuff. Attache is kind of large enough, but this one is larger.The locking screw is slightly slippery, but other vice good quality.</li>
<li>2x <a title="Petzl Ange in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4337&amp;name=Petzl%20%20Ange">Petzl Ange S</a> (weight 28g) &#8211; Couple of extra carabiners for general purpose clipping, can use them for extendable draw or clipping things like bottles and cameras where ever I need to. Some people consider these too small, but I haven&#8217;t had any problems with them. They&#8217;re really light and clipping feel is excellent.</li>
<li>1x <a title="Austrialpin Easy Classic in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=9713&amp;name=Austrialpin%20Easy%20Classic">Austrialpin Easy Classic</a> (weight 48g) &#8211; I use it in the fixed cow&#8217;s tail I have in my harness, which I occasionally clip to my ice tool. While not the lightest, it provides good grip and clip on and off are surprisingly easy.</li>
<li>5x Modified <a title="Wild Country Helium Quickdraw in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=3853&amp;name=Wild%20Country%20%20Helium%20Quickdraw">Wild Country Helium Quickdraw</a> <em>(weight 70-74g)</em> &#8211; Newer half of my quickdraws. I replaced the original dogbone with <a title="Edelrid Dyneema Quickdraw Sling 8mm in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=5811&amp;name=Edelrid%20Sports%20Dyneema%20Quickdraw%20Slings%208%20mm">Edelrid 8mm dogbone</a>, because the rubber carabiner holder in original ones just couldn&#8217;t take low temperatures. Besides Edelrid dogbones are slightly lighter. Besides the dogbone problem Heliums are excellent quick draws.</li>
<li>5x <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=2272&amp;name=Black%20Diamond%20%20Positron%20Quickdraw">Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw</a> <em>(weight 105g)</em> &#8211; My old set of quickdraws. While a bit heavy, they&#8217;ve served me well. Clipping is okay and the rubber thingy that keeps the carabiner in place is durable.</li>
<li>2x Custom made Quickdraw, <a title="Mammut Bionic Wire Safe Gate in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4332&amp;name=Mammut%20Bionic%20Wire%20Safe%20Gate">Mammut Bionic Wiresafe Gate</a> (rope end), <a title="Edelrid Dyneema Quickdraw Sling 8mm in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=5811&amp;name=Edelrid%20Sports%20Dyneema%20Quickdraw%20Slings%208%20mm">Edelrid 8mm dogbone</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4337&amp;name=Petzl%20%20Ange">Petzl Ange S</a> (protection end) <em>(weight 65g)</em> &#8211; I eneded up doing couple of these funky looking light quickdraws after I had a few extra carabiners, which I had acquired while in search and testing the best clear clip carabiner. While I like the shape of the Bionic Wire Safe gates, they&#8217;re a bit heavier than <a title="Wild Country Helium at tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4327&amp;name=Wild%20Country%20%20Helium">Wildcountry Heliums</a>. Other vice Mammut Wiresafe Gate carabiners are equally good as other good quality light clear clip carabiners. And yes, that&#8217;s lighter than any in-stock quickdraw with full sized carabiner on rope end.</li>
<li>1x Custom made shock absorbing Quickdraw, <a title="DMM Shield in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4328&amp;name=DMM%20Climbing%20%20Shield">DMM Shield</a> Carabiners, <a title="E-climb Dissip in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4398&amp;name=E-climb%20%20dissip">E-Climb Dissip</a> shock absorbing sling <em>(weight 116g)</em> &#8211; Pretty much the same story as above, just that I ended up using the DMM shields on shock absorber. DMM Shield works and feels pretty much like Mammut Wiresafe Gates, which according to some sources are actually manufactured by DMM.</li>
</ul>
<p>Right now I&#8217;m relaying almost always to &#8220;ready made&#8221; quickdraws. This being said, many of my friends have recommended that I should replace a few of my quickdraws with extendable slings. Second odd thing is that I have many quickdraws. Part of the explanation is the fact that we climb using long 70m ropes, but other part is the fact that I like having a few extra quickdraws just in case. Which of course mitigates, in certain extent, the weight savings from light stuff. <img src='http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Well, depending on route quite often I&#8217;ll leave a few Positron Quickdaws to the ground.</p>
<p><strong>Other carabiners I currently have</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>3x <a title="Kong HMS Classic in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=5277&amp;name=KONG%20%20H.M.S%20Classic">Kong HMS Classic</a> (weight 86g) &#8211; My old anchor building carabiner set. While these are quite heavy compared to the lightest modern carabiners they offer clear clip nose and good build quality.</li>
<li>3x <a title="Petzl William in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=3978&amp;name=Petzl%20%20William">Petzl William</a> Ball Lock (weight 94g) &#8211; Carabiners that I use mainly in indoor climbing and ocassionally in rock. They&#8217;re large and easy to handle, but pretty heavy. The quality is good though and the locking mechanism is excellent for indoor climbing.</li>
<li>2x <a title="Petzl William in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=3978&amp;name=Petzl%20%20William">Petzl William</a> Screw Gate (weight 90g) &#8211; My backup belay carabiners. Quite often they still get carried to the bottom of the fall, but used mostly on indoor walls and on rock. Good quality, but heavy. The size makes it easy for organizing things.</li>
<li>1x Old Austrialpin &#8211; I used to have more of these, but they&#8217;ve gotten lost during the years. Due to the fact that it has the nose, I hardly ever use them anymore. On some top roping anchors, when putting up several of them and running out of other type of carabiners perhaps. I would definitely instruct people to stay away of nosed carabiners with the exception of very light carabiners cliped to the rope.</li>
<li>1x G<a title="Grivel Gamma K2W in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=5443&amp;name=Grivel%20Gamma%20K2W">rivel Gamma K2W</a> &#8211; Came with <a title="Grivel Speedy in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4737&amp;name=Grivel%20%20Speedy">Speedy ice screw</a>. It&#8217;s good quality and it&#8217;s not unreasonably heavy, but has a nose. It&#8217;s not a huge issue as it&#8217;s rope end carabiner, but still prefer clear clips also as rope end carabiners.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Carabiners I consider best of the class right now</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Small non-locker &#8211; <a title="Petzl Ange S in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4337&amp;name=Petzl%20%20Ange">Petzl Ange S</a>; it&#8217;s the lightest clear clip nosed carabiner, overall a good quality and pretty easy clipping.</li>
<li>Full sized non-locker &#8211; <a title="Wild Country Helium in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4327&amp;name=Wild%20Country%20%20Helium">Wildcountry Helium</a>; it&#8217;s the lightest full sized clear clip nosed carabiner, besides the clipping feel is great and gate opening good.</li>
<li>Small locker -<a title="DMM Phantom Screw Gate" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4488&amp;name=DMM%20Climbing%20Phantom%20Screwgate"> DMM Phantom Screwgate</a>; it&#8217;s either lightest or one of the lightest screw gate carabiners out there. DMM is known for its quality, so a good choice. My next anchor building carabiners are probably going to be these.</li>
</ul>
<p>I kind of thought to list also best of class full sized and large sized carabiners, but then decided that I haven&#8217;t researched them enough to make up a well founded opinion.</p>
<p><strong>Carabiner comparisons</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a title="Light non-locking clear clip carabiners" href="http://www.tribevine.com/products?open=true&amp;ids=4332,4337,5035,6419,4327,4328,7676,5136,9713,5443&amp;title=Non-Locking">Light non-lockin clear clip carabiners and the ones mentioned in this article</a></li>
<li><a title="Light locking carabiners in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/products?open=true&amp;ids=4488,5752,4496,5056,4492,2460,5062,5364,4478,5033,4490,4386,4254,7676,5136,4494,3978,5277,9710,4481&amp;title=Locking">Light locking carabiners and the ones mentioned in this article</a></li>
<li><a title="Light Quickdraws in tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/products?open=true&amp;ids=4399,5691,5031,6420,3853,2272&amp;title=Quickdraws">Light clear clip quickdraws and the ones mentioned in this article</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>The web-stores that sell these things:</strong></p>
<ol>
<li>Austrialpin Easy Classic &#8211; <a title="Austrialpin Easy Classic at Mountainshop" href="http://www.mountainshop.fi/kauppa/product_info.php?products_id=627">Mountainshop</a>, <a title="Austrialpin Easy Classic at Outdoor-Ranger" href="http://www.outdoor-ranger.co.uk/austrialpin-easy-classic-straight-karabiner-polish-p-10479.html">Outdoor-Ranger</a></li>
<li style="text-align: left;">Black Diamond Positron Screw Gate &#8211; <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screw Gate at REI" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10248&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F710216%2Fblack-diamond-positron-screwgate-carabiner">REI</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screw Gate at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fblack-diamond-positron-screwgate-carabiner">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screwgate at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/rock-climbing-gear/p-15242-d-1283-v-54638/black-diamond/positron-keylock-screwgate.html">Barrabes</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screwgate at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/blackdiamondpositronscrewgate-p-1127.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screwgate at Varuste.net" href="http://www.varuste.net/tuotetiedot2.asp?_prodid=3906&amp;nimi=Black+Diamond+Positron+Screwgate,+HMS">Varuste.net</a>, <a title="Positron Screwgate at Camu" href="http://www.camu.fi/pages/kiipeily/seinakiipeily/sulkurenkaat_lukittavat/positronscrewgate.html">Camu</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screwgate at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fblack-diamond-positron-screwgate-carabiner.html">US Outdoor Store</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Screwgate at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D3659315">Eastern Mountain Sports</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron at GearX" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10537&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fgearx.com%2Fblack-diamond-positron-screwgate-biner.html">GearX</a></li>
<li>Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw &#8211; <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at REI" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10248&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F809731%2Fblack-diamond-positron-quickdraw-set">REI</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fblack-diamond-positron-quickdraw">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/rock-climbing-gear/p-19021-d-1281-v-73498/black-diamond/positron-set-_-10-mm.html">Barrabes</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/blackdiamondpositron12cmquickdraw-p-44416.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at Varuste.net" href="http://www.varuste.net/tuotetiedot2.asp?_prodid=3133&amp;nimi=Black+Diamond+Positron+Quickdraw+12+cm">Varuste.net</a>, <a title="Black Diamon Positron Quickdraw at Camu" href="http://www.camu.fi/pages/kiipeily/seinakiipeily/jatkot/positronquickdraw10cm.html">Camu</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at Moosejaw" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10086&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moosejaw.com%2Fmoosejaw%2Fshop%2Fproduct_Black-Diamond-Positron-Quickdraw_10119124_10208_10000001_-1_">Moosejaw</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fblack-diamond-positron-quickdraw.html">US Outdoor Store</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D11755808">Eastern Mountain Sports</a>,  <a title="Black Diamond Positron Quickdraw at GearX" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10537&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fgearx.com%2Fblack-diamond-positron-quickdraw-18-cm-2011-tron.html">GearX</a></li>
<li>DMM Phantom Screwgate &#8211; <a title="DMM Phantom Screwgate at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Karabiners/Standard-Screwgates/Phantom-Keylock-Screwgate-DMM-PHANTOMSG">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="DMM Phanton Screwgate at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/rock-climbing-gear/p-26509-d-1283-v-103220/dmm/phantom-screwgate.html">Barrabes</a>, <a title="DMM Phantom Screwgate at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fdmm-phantom-screwgate-caribeaner.html">US Outdoor Store</a></li>
<li>DMM Shield - <a title="DMM Shield at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Karabiners/Standard-Karabiners/Shield-DMM-SHIELDKRAB">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="DMM Shield at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D3667259">Eastern Mountain Sports</a></li>
<li>E-climb Dissip - <a title="E-climb dissip at E-climb" href="http://www.e-climb.com/cintas_en/dissip_en">E-climb</a></li>
<li>Edelrid Dyneema Dogbone &#8211; <a title="Edelrid Dyneema Express Quickdraw Sling at Shelby" href="http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41_138&amp;products_id=1751">Shelby</a></li>
<li>Grivel Gamma K2W &#8211; <a title="Black Diamond Express at GearX" href="http://gearx.com/black-diamond-express-ice-screw.html">?</a></li>
<li>Kong HMS Classic -<a title="Kong HMS Classic at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/rock-climbing-gear/p-20456-d-1283-v-77547/kong/hms-classic-screw_lock.html">Barrabes</a></li>
<li>Mammut Bionic HMS &#8211; <a title="Mammut Bionic HMS at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/mammutbionichms-p-4503.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Mammut Bionic HMS at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D3658604">Eastern Mountain Sports</a></li>
<li>Mammut Bionic Myhtolito - <a title="Mammut Bionic Mytholito at backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fmammut-bionic-mytholito-screwgate-carabiner">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Mammut Bionic Mytholito at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/mammutbionicmytholito-p-4505.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Mammut Bionic Mytholito at Moosejaw" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10086&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moosejaw.com%2Fmoosejaw%2Fshop%2Fproduct_Mammut-Bionic-Mytholito-HMS-Carabiner_10119966_10208__-1_">Moosejaw</a>, <a title="Mammut Bionic Mytholito at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fmammut-bionic-mytholito-screwlock-carabiner.html">US Outdoor Store</a>, <a title="Mammut Bionic Mytholito at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D3658603">Eastern Mountain Sports</a>,  <a title="Mammut Bionic Mytholito at GearX" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10537&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fgearx.com%2Fmammut-bionic-mytholito-lock-biner.html">GearX</a></li>
<li>Mammut Bionic Wire Safe Gate &#8211; <a title="Mammut Bionic Wire Safe Gate at Varuste.net" href="http://www.varuste.net/tuotetiedot2.asp?_prodid=18124&amp;nimi=Mammut+Bionic+Wire+Safe+Gate">Varuste.net</a></li>
<li>Petzl Ange S &#8211; <a title="Petzl Ange at REI" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10248&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F822648%2Fpetzl-ange-s-wiregate-carabiner">REI</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fpetzl-ange-s-ultra-lite-wire-gate-carabiner">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Karabiners/Standard-Karabiners/Ange-Karabiner---Small">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange S at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/rock-climbing-gear/p-29510-d-1285-v-114814/petzl/ange-s.html">Barrabes</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/petzlanges-p-46575.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange at Varuste.net" href="http://www.varuste.net/tuotetiedot2.asp?_prodid=36078&amp;nimi=Petzl+Ange+MonoFil,+S">Varuste.net</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fpetzl-ange-small-carabiner.html">US Outdoor Store</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D11326342">Eastern Mountain Sports</a>,  <a title="Petzl Ange at GearX" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10537&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fgearx.com%2Fpetzl-ange-s-carabiner.html">GearX</a>, <a title="Petzl Ange S at Shelby" href="http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41_48_89&amp;products_id=1769">Shelby</a></li>
<li>Petzl Attache 3D &#8211; <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at REI" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10248&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F792817%2Fpetzl-attache-3d-hms-screwgate-carabiner">REI</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fpetzl-attache-3d-screw-lock-carabiner">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Canyoning/Attache-3D-HMS-Screwgate-PET-ATT3D">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/rock-climbing-gear/p-25686-d-1283-v-99420/petzl/attache-3-d-screw_lock.html">Barrabes</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/petzlattache3d-p-8412.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Varuste.net" href="http://www.varuste.net/tuotetiedot2.asp?_prodid=38682&amp;nimi=Petzl+Attache+3D+ScrewLock">Varuste.net</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Moosejaw" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10086&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moosejaw.com%2Fmoosejaw%2Fshop%2Fproduct_Petzl-Attache-3D-Carabiner_10085047_10208__-1_">Moosejaw</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fpetzl-attache-3d-caribiner.html">US Outdoor Store</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D3665001">Eastern Mountain Sports</a>, <a title="Petzl Attache 3D at Shelby" href="http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41_48_88&amp;products_id=1390">Shelby</a></li>
<li>Petzl William &#8211; <a title="Petzl William at REI" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10248&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F737864%2Fpetzl-william-screwgate-carabiner">REI</a>, <a title="Petzl William at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fpetzl-william-locking-carabiner-ptz0079">Backcountry</a>,<a title="Petzl William at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/work_at_height--rescue-gear/p-24119-d-1751-v-93409/petzl/william-screw_lock.html">Barrabes</a>, <a title="Petzl William at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/petzlwilliamtriact-p-2094.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Petzl William at Varuste.net" href="http://www.varuste.net/tuotetiedot2.asp?_prodid=32447&amp;nimi=Petzl+William+Screw+Lock">Varuste.net</a>, <a title="Petzl William at Moosejaw" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10086&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moosejaw.com%2Fmoosejaw%2Fshop%2Fproduct_Petzl-William-Screw-Lock-Carabiner_10026327_10208_10000001_-1_">Moosejaw</a>, <a title="Petzl William at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fpetzl-william-lock-carabiner.html">US Outdoor Store</a>, <a title="Petzl William at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10785&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ems.com%2Fproduct%2Findex.jsp%3FproductId%3D3665027">Eastern Mountain Sports</a>,  <a title="Petzl William at GearX" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10537&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fgearx.com%2Fpetzl-william-screw-lock.html">GearX</a></li>
<li>Wild Country Helium &#8211; <a title="Wild Country Helium at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fwild-country-helium-clean-wire-carabiner">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Wild Country Helium at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Karabiners/Standard-Karabiners/Helium-Clean-Wire-Krab-WCO-HEL">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="Wild Country Helium at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/wildcountryheliumcleanlock-p-1943.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Wild Country Helium at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fwild-country-helium-wire-carabiner.html">US Outdoor Store</a>,  <a title="Wild Country Helium at GearX" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10537&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fgearx.com%2Fwild-country-helium-wire-carabiner-red-anodized.html">GearX</a></li>
<li>Wild Country Helium Quickdraw &#8211; <a title="Black Diamond Express at REI" href="http://www.rei.com/webservices/rei/DisplayStyle/761270">REI</a>, <a title="Wild Coumyry Helium at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10060&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountry.com%2Fwild-country-helium-10cm-quickdraw-5-pack-wdc0022">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Wild Country Helium Quickdraw at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Quickdraws/Helium-Quickdraw-WCO-HELQD">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="Wild Country Helium Quickdraw at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/wildcountryhelium10cmqdset-p-1942.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Wild Country Helium Quickdraw at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10573&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usoutdoor.com%2Foutlet%2Fwild-country-helium-wire-quickdraw.html">US Outdoor Store</a>,  <a title="Wild Country Helium Quickdraw at GearX" href="http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&amp;mi=10537&amp;pw=38215&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fgearx.com%2Fwild-country-helium-wire-10cm-quickdraw.html">GearX</a></li>
</ol>
<p><strong>Few closeup shots of the screws</strong><strong>:<br />
</strong>
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								<img title="p1020891" alt="p1020891" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020891.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020897" alt="p1020897" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020897.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020898" alt="p1020898" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020898.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020899" alt="p1020899" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020899.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020901.jpg" title="Mammut Bionic Wire Safe Gate" class="shutterset_set_35" >
								<img title="p1020901" alt="p1020901" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020901.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020905" alt="p1020905" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020905.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020907.jpg" title="My modified Wild Country Helium Quickdraws." class="shutterset_set_35" >
								<img title="p1020907" alt="p1020907" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020907.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020911" alt="p1020911" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020911.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020913" alt="p1020913" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020913.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020915" alt="p1020915" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020915.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020918.jpg" title="Wild Country Helium" class="shutterset_set_35" >
								<img title="p1020918" alt="p1020918" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020918.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020919" alt="p1020919" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020919.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020920" alt="p1020920" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020920.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020922.jpg" title="Black Diamond Positron" class="shutterset_set_35" >
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020923.jpg" title="Black Diamond Positron" class="shutterset_set_35" >
								<img title="p1020923" alt="p1020923" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020923.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020924.jpg" title="Black Diamond Positron" class="shutterset_set_35" >
								<img title="p1020924" alt="p1020924" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020924.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/p1020925.jpg" title="Black Diamond Positron" class="shutterset_set_35" >
								<img title="p1020925" alt="p1020925" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020925.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020927" alt="p1020927" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020927.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="p1020929" alt="p1020929" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/carabiners-and-quickdraws/thumbs/thumbs_p1020929.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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		<title>Different kind of screws</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2011/04/different-kind-of-screws/880</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2011/04/different-kind-of-screws/880#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2011 08:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[equipment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Black Diamond]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[e-climb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[express]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grivel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Klau]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quickdraw]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Speedy]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have recently been using three different kind of screws; Black Diamond Express , E-climb klau and Grivel Speedy (side by side comparison available at tribevine.com). It&#8217;s been revelation for me how different they are. I mean they&#8217;re all good, but not in every situation. While Express is easiest to get started, especially on hard [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have recently been using three different kind of screws; <a title="Black Diamond Express screw" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/ice-protection/express-ice-screw/">Black Diamond Express</a> <a title="Black Diamond Express at tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=2842&amp;name=Black%20Diamond%20Express%20Ice%20Screws"><img title="Black Diamond Express at Tribevine.com" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/2010/12/ultrasmall_t-button-logo_13.12.2010.png" alt="" width="16" height="16" /></a>, <a title="E-climb screws" href="http://www.e-climb.com/tornillos_en/">E-climb klau</a> <a title="E-climb klau at tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4393&amp;name=E-climb%20klau"><img title="E-climb klau at Tribevine.com" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/2010/12/ultrasmall_t-button-logo_13.12.2010.png" alt="" width="16" height="16" /></a> and <a title="Grivel's ice screws" href="http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/ice_screws/synoptic">Grivel Speedy</a> <a title="Grivel Speedy at tribevine.com" href="http://www.tribevine.com/product?p=4737&amp;name=Grivel%20%20Speedy%20Ice%20Screws&amp;e=true"><img title="Grivel Speedy at Tribevine.com" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/2010/12/ultrasmall_t-button-logo_13.12.2010.png" alt="" width="16" height="16" /></a> (side by side comparison available at <a title="Comparison cart : Equipment &gt; Climbing &gt; Protection &gt; Ice Screws ; Items: 3 | Tribevine:" href="http://www.tribevine.com/products?open=true&amp;ids=4737,2842,4393&amp;title=Screws%20in%20climbingextreme.com%20article">tribevine.com</a>). It&#8217;s been revelation for me how different they are. I mean they&#8217;re all good, but not in every situation. While Express is easiest to get started, especially on hard ice, klau and Speedy are a lot easier to drive; klau perhaps even easier than Speedy. To make the decision even more difficult, each of the screws has its own unique features that others are missing. It&#8217;s kind of starting to seem that I need several sets of screws. <img src='http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' />  Well, here&#8217;s a roundup of my findings each of them.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020462.jpg" title="The handles of the screws." class="shutterset_singlepic898" >
	<img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-left" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/898_watermark_450x_p1020462.jpg" alt="p1020462" title="p1020462" />
</a>
<br />
<small>Picture above: All the three different screws.</small></p>
<p><strong>Black Diamond Express</strong> &#8211; On a stance, due to its two carabiner holes Express is obvious choice. I&#8217;m grabbing it also on cold hard ice in a difficult situation where I need a fast placement, especially if the placement location is suboptimal, i.e. I need to reach out further than I&#8217;d like (or thought due hollow spot).</p>
<ul>
<li>Easiest to get started, harder the ice, bigger the difference</li>
<li>Has two carabiner holes (handy at stance)</li>
<li>Though the knob in the new model is larger, is still kind of small</li>
<li>High quality finishing</li>
<li>Racks well with other &#8220;standard&#8221; shaped screws</li>
<li>Set of these with appropriate amount of quickdraws weights about 200g more than the lightest alternative (provided that you use light quick draws, i.e. 70g  each)</li>
</ul>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020470.jpg" title="Handle of Black Diamond Express." class="shutterset_singlepic905" >
	<img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-left" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/905_watermark_450x_p1020470.jpg" alt="p1020470" title="p1020470" />
</a>
<br />
<small>Picture above: Black Diamond Express screw.</small></p>
<p><strong>E-climb klau</strong> &#8211; It&#8217;s fastest placing screw on soft ice; it&#8217;s obvious; I&#8217;ll grab it in difficult situation when the weather is warm and ice is soft.</p>
<ul>
<li>Easiest to drive once started</li>
<li>By far the lightest screw on a rack</li>
<li>Has replaceable tip</li>
<li>Furthest reaching folding handle</li>
<li>Carabiner hole can accommodate two carabiners</li>
<li>Tip seems to rust easier than competition</li>
<li>Racks well with other &#8220;standard&#8221; shaped screws</li>
</ul>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020469.jpg" title="Handle of E-climb klau." class="shutterset_singlepic904" >
	<img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-left" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/904_watermark_450x_p1020469.jpg" alt="p1020469" title="p1020469" />
</a>
<br />
<small>Picture above: E-climb klau screw.</small></p>
<p><strong>Grivel Speedy</strong> &#8211; Great combination of features, excels in all conditions, I&#8217;ll use it when everything is flowing well and I want to save the extra move (and thus time) that it takes to find and clip a quick draw.</p>
<ul>
<li>While not the lightest as such, you&#8217;ll save the weight of a one carabiner</li>
<li>Very easy to drive, bites reasonably well in all conditions</li>
<li>Tip protector that doubles up as handle</li>
<li>Has integrated quickdraw, that saves you from searching and clipping a quick draw from your rack (it&#8217;s surprising how big the difference is)</li>
<li>Large diameter carabiner hole, can take several carabiners</li>
<li>Very high quality finishing</li>
<li>Not perhaps as straight forward to rack as &#8220;standard&#8221;-shaped screws (though I haven&#8217;t had any problems with racking).</li>
</ul>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020468.jpg" title="Tip protector of Grivel Speedy on the tip." class="shutterset_singlepic903" >
	<img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-left" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/903_watermark_450x_p1020468.jpg" alt="p1020468" title="p1020468" />
</a>
<br />
<small>Picture above: Grivel Speedy screw.</small></p>
<p>So based on these experiences it seems that I&#8217;m going to build a core of my rack around Grivel&#8217;s Speedys, though before final decision, I need more experience of them on very hard ice. In addition there will be couple of short, one medium and one long Black Diamond Expresses; unless of course I&#8217;ll find Speedys better on hard ice as well. The long and medium Expresses are for building stances and abalakovs. Then there will be a few E-climb klaus, just for those warm days in case I need something longer than the longest standard integrated quickdraw of Speedy (over 30cm).</p>
<p><strong>Then the web-stores that sell these things:</strong></p>
<ol>
<li>Black Diamond Express &#8211; <a title="La Sportiva Spantik at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.backcountry.com/la-sportiva-spantik-mountaineering-boot-mens"></a><a title="Black Diamond Express at REI" href="http://www.rei.com/webservices/rei/DisplayStyle/761270">REI</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-express-ice-screws">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Winter-Climbing-Equipment/Ice-Protection/Ice-Screws/Express-Ice-Screw-BDI-TEXPN">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Barrabes.com" href="http://www.barrabes.com/shop/snow--ice-climbing-gear/p-20631-d-1324-v-78208/black-diamond/express-ice-screw-16-cm.html">Barrabes</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/blackdiamondexpressicescrew10cmto22cm-p-732.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Varuste.net" href="http://www.varuste.net/tuotetiedot2.asp?_prodid=18121&amp;nimi=Black+Diamond+Express+Ice+Screw+16+cm">Varuste.net</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Camu" href="http://www.camu.fi/shop/kiipeily/vuorikiipeily/jaa_ja_lumivarmistukset/expressicescrew16cm.html">Camu</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Moosejaw" href="http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Black-Diamond-Turbo-Express-Ice-Screws_10036068____">Moosejaw</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at US Outdoor Store" href="http://www.usoutdoorstore.com/outlet/black-diamond-express-ice-screws.html">US Outdoor Store</a>, <a title="Black Diamond Express at Eastern Mountain Sports" href="http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3659368">Eastern Mountain Sports</a>,  <a title="Black Diamond Express at GearX" href="http://gearx.com/black-diamond-express-ice-screw.html">GearX</a></li>
<li>E-climb klau &#8211; <a title="E-climb klau at E-climb" href="http://www.e-climb.com/tornillos_en/">E-climb</a></li>
<li>Grivel Speedy - <a title="Grivel Speedy at Backcountry.com" href="http://www.backcountry.com/grivel-helix-spd-ice-screw">Backcountry</a>, <a title="Grivel Speedy at Needle Sports" href="http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Winter-Climbing-Equipment/Ice-Protection/Ice-Screws/Speedy-Ice-Screw-15cm-with-20cm-tape-GRI-SPEEDYM">Needle Sports</a>, <a title="Grivel Speedy at Telemark-Pyrenees" href="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/grivelhelixspeedy20-p-7582.html">Telemark-Pyrenees</a>, <a title="Grivel Speedy at Moosejaw" href="http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Grivel-Helix-Speedy-20-cm-Ice-Screw_10090258____">Moosejaw</a><a title="Yates Zipper at GearX" href="http://gearx.com/yates-zipper-screamer.html"></a></li>
</ol>
<p><strong>Few closeup shots of the screws</strong><strong>:<br />
</strong>
<div class="ngg-galleryoverview" id="ngg-gallery-33-880">

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								<img title="p1020433" alt="p1020433" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020433.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020435.jpg" title="The different tip shapes of all the three screws." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020435" alt="p1020435" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020435.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020436.jpg" title="The different tip shapes of all the three screws." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020436" alt="p1020436" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020436.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020437.jpg" title="Tip of the E-climb klau." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020437" alt="p1020437" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020437.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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	<div id="ngg-image-877" class="ngg-gallery-thumbnail-box"  >
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020438.jpg" title="Tip of the Black Diamond Express." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020438" alt="p1020438" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020438.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020439.jpg" title="Tip of the Grivel Speedy." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020439" alt="p1020439" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020439.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020440.jpg" title="Tube of the E-climb klau in front, next the Black Diamond Express and finally Grivel Speedy." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020440" alt="p1020440" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020440.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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	<div id="ngg-image-880" class="ngg-gallery-thumbnail-box"  >
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020441.jpg" title="Tube of the Black Diamond Express in front, next the Grivel Speedy and finally E-climb klau." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020441" alt="p1020441" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020441.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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	<div id="ngg-image-881" class="ngg-gallery-thumbnail-box"  >
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020442.jpg" title="Tube of the Grivel Speedy in front, next the Black Diamond Express and finally E-climb klau." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020442" alt="p1020442" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020442.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020444.jpg" title="All the three screws together." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020444" alt="p1020444" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020444.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/p1020445.jpg" title="The handles of the screws." class="shutterset_set_33" >
								<img title="p1020445" alt="p1020445" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/screw-comparison/thumbs/thumbs_p1020445.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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		<title>In search for ideal ice climbing glove</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/in-search-for-ideal-ice-climbing-glove/474</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/in-search-for-ideal-ice-climbing-glove/474#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 09:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[clothing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[equipment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Armortan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Berghaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Black Diamond]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Enforcer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Extrem]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fleece]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gloves]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gore-Tex]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grivel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ice Breaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ice fall]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[merino]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mits]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[palm]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[review]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the most difficult issues in terms of ice climbing related gear is the selection of right gloves. Over the years I have tried dozens of different gloves in all sorts of climbing conditions. I have climbed with my friends in temperatures ranging from +5 to -30 degrees in Celsius. We have climbed in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most difficult issues in terms of ice climbing related gear is the selection of right gloves. Over the years I have tried dozens of different gloves in all sorts of climbing conditions. I have climbed with my friends in temperatures ranging from +5 to -30 degrees in Celsius. We have climbed in sunny weather, in rain, in snow storms, had short easy approaches and a bit more difficult ones. I have literally worn to pieces dozens of gloves. There have been pairs that lasted two seasons in decent shape (hardly ever longer) and some that have ripped apart during their first day.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/broken-gear/img_0113.jpg" title="Beghaus Extrem ski touring gloves, note the patched fingers." class="shutterset_singlepic436" >
	<img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-left" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/436__450x_img_0113.jpg" alt="img_0113" title="img_0113" />
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<br />
<small>Picture above: Beghaus Extrem ski touring gloves.</small></p>
<p>The requirements for a good ice climbing gloves are diverse and often contradictory. The durability, especially on palm side and fingers is a must. Dexterity, especially when dealing with screws, is required. To make the subject even more difficult there&#8217;s dozens of variables in play. One must take into account the weather and climbing conditions; even small things such as gear that&#8217;s been used, affect the situation heavily. Gloves should be simultaneously wildly breathable, but offer enough warmth and protection from the elements and at the times freely flowing water. In short, even though most of you (ice climbers) probably know already quite a bit of gloves, I thought to share some of my insights and experiences on the topic; I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s possible to know too much about it. <img src='http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><strong>General instructions for glove selection</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><em>You need to have several pairs of them -</em> One pair of breathables for approaches, one pair for climbing and one pair to have a dry pair just in case. Typically I will carry even fourth extra warm pair of mitts, especially if it&#8217;s cold, for belaying and hanging around. Sometimes, in very cold conditions, I might carry fifth thin wool pair to provide extra warmth under the standard pair. Furthermore you probably need a different primary climbing glove pair for cold and warm days.</li>
<li><em>The ones that you use for climbing need to be super durable</em> - Check the palm side, the extra protected area needs to be extra large and durable enough to take the sliding rope and axes. The protected area should reach from fingers to the top of the hand. Pay attention to stitching and seams, which are usually the weak spots. Typically, in high quality glove, extra durable materials, such as Pittard Armortan on palm itself and Kevlar on palm stitching, are being used.</li>
<li><em>The primary climbing pair needs to be able to deal with the water</em> - This means most likely Gore-Tex or some similar water proofing in the glove, and such wrist that can be put on top of the jacket. Well, the wrist part is matter of preference in some extent, but I like to route the water on top of my jacket instead of inside of it. Furthermore there are some other ways of dealing with water, such as neoprene, but as said, I prefer water proof. Also if you KNOW that there will be very little or no liquid water (either flowing or in form of rain / wet snow), you could think of something more breathable (=less water proof).</li>
<li><em>They need to be dexterous</em> - The basic principle in climbing cold conditions in order to avoid frost bites is that you wear your gloves all the times. You pour and drink your tea, eat your bread while wearing them, you belay and place your screws while wearing them; you tie the knots while wearing them. Though it&#8217;s partly a matter of learning it is also a matter of glove as well. Try to find a pair that feels as dexterous as possible.</li>
<li><em>Try them out and perhaps several pairs</em> - Gloves tend to vary from glove to glove slightly, choose the pair that gives the best feeling and dexterity while trying. Preferably try them with your ice tools, as glove padding and some of the axe fangs and triggers might not fit together well.</li>
<li><em>Pay attention to details</em> - There needs to be easy way to dry them up (how do you hang them?) and they should be washable. Some people (including I) like ones that have some padding to protect the fingers from bruises. It&#8217;s not a bad idea to consider as primary climbing glove, at least for cold days, something that has removable lining and a cord that attaches them to your wrists (you don&#8217;t like to lose them when there&#8217;s an hour down and three hours up).</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Some practical glove experiences / reviews:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><em>Black Diamond Enforcer gloves</em> &#8211; My current primary climbing glove. They are warm; the protective area on palm side is large enough and extends to the fingers. There&#8217;s a removable Gore-Tex insert which makes the washing and drying easier. So far the best pair I&#8217;ve found.</li>
<li><em>Grivel Ice Fall gloves</em> &#8211; These were my number one primary climbing pair few seasons back. They&#8217;re made of strong enough materials, have finger protection and are water proof. Their overall quality is good. They could breathe better and certain parts of the palm stitching seem to be in areas that experience heavy wear. They’ve been a very good pair in deed. Note that Grivel sizing is extremely small; as a result you probably start trying something that&#8217;s at least one size bigger than your usual size.</li>
<li><em>Grivel Taa-k-oon gloves</em> &#8211; I&#8217;ve used these for approaches, cross country ski-in and in very rare occasions warm weather climbing. They are fairly breathable, offer good grip and plenty of dexterity. For me though, they&#8217;re too thin for climbing. It&#8217;s usually just too cold for them. They&#8217;ve served me well for several years though and seem to be good quality. Note the Grivel sizing.</li>
<li><em>Bergaus Extrem gloves</em> &#8211; My &#8220;dry pair&#8221;. They&#8217;re surprisingly warm and dexterous, the leather is soft and they breathe fairly well. I actually bought these to be my primary climbing gloves, but the problem was the fact that they weren&#8217;t hard enough for climbing; seams tear apart when stressed (there were several rips in less than two days of heavy use). I have also frequently used these for ski touring, which is ideal purpose for them (I guess that&#8217;s what they are designed for). Despite the design shortages (seam durability) from climbing perspective, they&#8217;re extremely good quality gloves.</li>
<li><em>Ice Breaker Merino Liner gloves</em> &#8211; Liners to add extra warmth during the coldest days of winter. They&#8217;re good though add more bulk when worn under Enforcers.</li>
<li><em>Salomon Mitts (don&#8217;t know the type)</em> &#8211; I&#8217;ve used Salomon mitts mainly for belaying and while standing around on very cold days. They&#8217;re extremely warm, but the materials aren&#8217;t water proof and they aren&#8217;t durable enough for actual climbing. The slight problem with these is the fact that the material is so thin, that they can get stuck in to your belay device.</li>
<li><em>Unknown Fleece / Fiber Fill breathable gloves</em> &#8211; I&#8217;ve used these mainly for approaches on cold days. They&#8217;re warm, light and breathable, but not very durable &#8211; a cheapest option of adding warmth for summer mountaineering at Kebnekaise few years back (forgot to bring any gloves). Did the trick and have been in frequent use even though the quality hasn&#8217;t been perfect.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Few images of gloves:<br />
</strong>
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/ice-climbing-gloves/img_0013.jpg" title="Pair of Berghaus Extrems. They're soft and dexterous, the palm area is made of pittards Armortan, but the seams of the top just can't take the heavy climbing." class="shutterset_set_21" >
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		<item>
		<title>Weak spots of quality gear</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/weak-spots-of-quality-gear/494</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/weak-spots-of-quality-gear/494#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 11:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[accessories]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[tips and tricks]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[backpack]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Berghaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Black Diamond]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bottle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[crampons]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[gloves]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grivel]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Helium]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ice Clipper]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manu]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[North Face]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[problem]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quickdraw]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rambo]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sigg]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Wild Country]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Xenos]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some time ago I reviewed Wild Country Helium quickdraws. At the time I just couldn&#8217;t find anything negative on them. I&#8217;ve used the quickdraws happily ever after. They&#8217;ve been great, but since the first article I have discovered some weaknesses too. The realization of the fact that quite a few pieces of quality gear also [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some time ago I reviewed Wild Country Helium quickdraws. At the time I just couldn&#8217;t find anything negative on them. I&#8217;ve used the quickdraws happily ever after. They&#8217;ve been great, but since the first article I have discovered some weaknesses too. The realization of the fact that quite a few pieces of quality gear also have several weaknesses led me to write this piece. At this point I want to stress the fact that each of the products and brands described in this article are extremely good and I could recommend any of them. Still I feel that it is important for climbers to realize the limitations and weaknesses of their gear and how to go around the weaknesses. Furthermore I feel that it is important that the manufactures hear the feedback from the field.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/broken-gear/img_0110.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_singlepic435" >
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<small>Picture above: Broken Wild Country Helium.</small></p>
<p><strong>1. Berghaus Extrem gloves</strong><br />
Seams seem to tear apart in heavy use, especially with ropes. They would be great gloves, I love their dexterity and warmth but as their seams may tear apart during a single day, they just aren&#8217;t an option for ice climbing. Even while ski touring one needs to be careful when ever handling ropes.</p>
<p><strong>2. Grivel Rambo 4 crampons</strong><br />
The yellow plastic of the active antibots breaks apart easily from its attachment; harder black plastic. I&#8217;ve seen this happen practically in every pair of Rambo&#8217;s I&#8217;ve seen. Despite the problem they&#8217;re best ice climbing crampons I know, and with a bit of patience one can fix the problem temporarily by pushing the plastic part back in place.</p>
<p><strong>3. Wild Country Helium Quickdraws</strong><br />
The anti-slip rubber of Helium Quickdraws is too &#8220;hard&#8221; and therefore breaks in below zero temperatures from the stitching seam. I have a set of five of these and it has happened on everyone except one. Different type of rubber, for instance such that&#8217;s been used in Black Diamon&#8217;s Positrons would probably fix the problem. Though I like Heliums, they&#8217;re not currently the first choice for an ice climber.</p>
<p><strong>4. Sigg Bottle cap</strong><br />
Threads of the cap get eaten by the bottle. To prevent this bottle should not be filled too full, the cap should not be tightened too tight and one should not allow the bottle to freeze.</p>
<p><strong>5. North Face Summit Series Gore-Tex XCR jacket</strong><br />
The watertight zippers of the jacket wear down quite fast in below zero temperatures, especially if there&#8217;s plenty of use for the zippers.</p>
<p><strong>6. Black Diamond Ice Clippers and their Xenos ice climbing harness</strong><br />
Ice Clippers slip through the clipper holders of Xenos after a while. In order to avoid that one should avoid too heavy loads (>five screws) and bending the clippers while packing it up. Still if the lip of the Ice Clipper would be just a bit longer or the clipper holder in the harness just a bit stiffer, it would work perfectly.</p>
<p><strong>7. Grivel Manu backpack</strong><br />
The Manu concept, detachable gear loops, is great and I&#8217;m using it frequently. The problem though is that with the gear loops only (i.e. backpack removed) the velcro on the back of the gear loops sticks to everything and cause for instance slings to wear faster than I would hope. An extra sheet of something to put on top of the velcro will fix the problem, but perhaps that could integrated to the Manu somehow too.</p>
<p><strong>Few images about the products mentioned:<br />
</strong>
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<p>Any comments and experiences of similar weak spots are greatly appreciated. I&#8217;m sure there are plenty of such around. It&#8217;s a great help for fellow climbers to be aware of them.</p>
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		<title>Review &#8211; Black Diamond First Shot</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/review-black-diamond-first-shot/525</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/review-black-diamond-first-shot/525#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 10:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[accessories]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[equipment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Abalakov]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Black Diamond]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[First Shot]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[V-thread]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For some reason descending using Abalakov thread (v-thread) is always kind of exciting experience. Though it is known, when created properly, Abalakov thread is as safe as any ice protection; it just does not feel as secure as hanging in a screw. In an Abalakov thread one of the biggest question marks, from reliability stand [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some reason descending using Abalakov thread (v-thread) is always kind of exciting experience. Though it is known, when created properly, Abalakov thread is as safe as any ice protection; it just does not feel as secure as hanging in a screw. In an Abalakov thread one of the biggest question marks, from reliability stand point, is the correct angle and distance of the two screw holes. Black Diamond First Shot tries to address exactly that challenge. In short the concept feels great and the need is definitely there. While it&#8217;s a good idea on a concept level, the product does not seem to work quite as expected.</p>
<p>At first First Shot feels sturdy, high quality, piece of gear; exactly what we have come to expect from Black Diamond. There are several problems though. First Shot is somewhat difficult to open with gloves. The metal hook, that&#8217;s supposed to be used for cutting and threading the cord through the hole, bends very easily. Furthermore it&#8217;s not at all that easy as you could think to create the Abalakov using First Shot. Everything was even worse when the conditions were difficult. We tested the thing both in good conditions and in dark pretty heavy snow storm and ended up doing the Abalakov thread traditional way each time.</p>
<p>Of course it might just be that I was dumb enough not to figure out the correct way of operation. I kind of doubt that though. I went through the instructions pretty well and did several trials prior to trying First Shot on real ice. Based on my experience in its current stage it is not worth of your money. For me First Shot was a huge disappointment. Especially because Black Diamond usually gets it right.</p>
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		<title>New season closing &#8211; equipment to pad the fever</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2009/09/new-season-closing-equipment-to-pad-the-fever/457</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2009/09/new-season-closing-equipment-to-pad-the-fever/457#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[accessories]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Gamma MX]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[ice axe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lightning Acent]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[sleeping bag]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[snowshoes]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[soft shell]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[valandre]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#8217;s still warm here where I&#8217;m living at, trees have their leaves and grass is green. There&#8217;s some signs that new season is closing though (unfortunately too slowly). Personally it&#8217;s the restless feeling in my guts, feeling that winter should already arrive. As a result I start going around web stores, spending hours and hours, every [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s still warm here where I&#8217;m living at, trees have their leaves and grass is green. There&#8217;s some signs that new season is closing though (unfortunately too slowly). Personally it&#8217;s the restless feeling in my guts, feeling that winter should already arrive. As a result I start going around web stores, spending hours and hours, every year around these times. I end up padding my ice climbing fewer with all sorts of equipment wish lists and all sorts of pieces of equipment. So I thought that I would share some of the findings while surfing.</p>
<p><strong>Here are few findings for the next season:</strong></p>
<p>1. <a href="http://www.needlesports.com/cgi-bin/sh000002.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fneedlesports%2ecom%2facatalog%2f&amp;WD=cascade%20grivel&amp;PN=Mail_Order_Axes_33%2ehtml%23aGRI_20PICK#aGRI_20PICK">Grivel Cascade</a> &#8211; Fresh ice axe replacement blades &#8211; These are B-rated, but should be better for ice climbing than Grivel&#8217;s T-rated stuff, which excel on mixed routes. The link is not to the Grivel site, for some reason, there are plenty of such Grivel products that aren&#8217;t there. The link is to Needlesports, they have a good set of replacement blades.</p>
<p>2. <a title="Grivel Double Spring Leash (2 krab verson)" href="http://www.grivel.com/Products/tabella_accessori.asp">Grivel Double Spring Leash (2 krab version)</a> &#8211; It is not really a leash, but flexible runner, which can be attached to the harness to avoid loss of axe.</p>
<p>3. <a title="Arc'teryx Gamma MX soft shell jacket" href="http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?Mens/Ice_Climbing/Gamma-MX-Jacket">Arc&#8217;teryx Gamma MX soft shell jacket </a>- A soft shell jacket, no hood, but ideal for wearing under Goretex or other waterproof shell. There&#8217;s also hooded version available, price is pretty steep though typically well over 300€.</p>
<p>4. <a title="Arc'teryx Gamma MX soft shell pants" href="http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?Mens/Pants-Shorts/Gamma-MX-Pant">Arc&#8217;teryx Gamma MX soft shell pants </a>- The pants part of the above jacket.</p>
<p>5. <a title="Arc'teryx Bucket Liner" href="http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?Mens/Ice_Climbing/Bucket-Liner">Arc&#8217;teryx Bucket Liner</a> &#8211; A hat that&#8217;s compatible with your helmet.</p>
<p>6. <a title="Arc'teryx Gamma SV Glove" href="http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?Mens/Ice_Climbing/Gamma-SV-Glove">Arc&#8217;teryx Gamma SV Glove </a>- Like many others, I&#8217;ve been looking for perfect ice climbing gloves (have a stock of quite a few already), would these be finally the ones?</p>
<p>7. <a href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/ski/avalung/avalung-ii">Black Diamond Avalung II</a> &#8211; I&#8217;m not absolutely sure if Avalung would be something that I would carry while climbing ice, though there&#8217;s certainly occassionally a danger of avalanche around. Anyways, for some reason I&#8217;ve been tempted to buy one for a long time.</p>
<p>8. <a title="Black Diamond First Shot" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/ice-protection/first-shot">Black Diamond First Shot </a>- An interesting tool for getting the abalakov right for those days when you&#8217;ve done it already twice and it still wasn&#8217;t good enough.</p>
<p>9. <a href="http://www.grivel.com/Products/speedy.asp">Grivel Speedy</a> &#8211; A kind of ice screw quickdraw combination, resulting better safety, reduced weight and faster placement.</p>
<p>10. <a title="Petzl Crevasse Rescue Kit" href="http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/self-jamming-pulleys/crevasse-rescue-kit">Petzl Crevasse Rescue Kit</a> &#8211; A compact emergency kit that contains everything needed for hauling / ascending in rescue situation.</p>
<p>11. <a title="Exped Dowmat Pump" href="http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset">Exped DownMat Pump </a>- Like the award winning down mat, but with integrated pump. I mean, the pumping was the only real problem with these, and now it seems that they have solved it.</p>
<p>12. <a title="MSR Ligtning Accent Snowshoes" href="http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowshoes/steep-and-challenging/lightning-ascent/product">MSR Lightning Accent snowshoes</a> &#8211; I&#8217;ve been long drooling over these snow shoes. Unfortunately I&#8217;ve already got MSR Denalis and I haven&#8217;t therefore really been able to justify the purchase.</p>
<p>13. <a title="Valandre Freja sleeping bag" href="http://www.valandre.com/product.php?name=freya">Valandre Freja sleeping bag</a> &#8211; A sleeping bag for cold winter nights, still pretty light. Temperature rating up to -33 in Celsius with weight only about 1,5kg is impressive.</p>
<p>14. <a title="Silvretta Freeride 800 AT skis" href="http://www.silvretta.de/freeride.php?chid=3&amp;m=4&amp;lang=uk&amp;sid=e0ac313e327bace13298f4d636389b3c&amp;prid=42&amp;ac=det">Silvretta Freeride 800 AT skis</a> &#8211; Recently I&#8217;ve been thinking that AT skis might be good alternative for approaches and ascents. This being said though, I guess I would like to have these just because of last season I carried my snowboard around way too much (not while ice climbing ofcourse).</p>
<p>15. <a title="Silvretta Pure Freeride AT bindings" href="http://www.silvretta.de/freeride.php?chid=3&amp;m=4&amp;lang=uk&amp;sid=e0ac313e327bace13298f4d636389b3c&amp;prid=1&amp;ac=det">Silvretta Pure Freeride AT bindings </a>- The perfect companion to Silvretta Freeride 800 AT skis&#8230; though if you would like to use skis with your mountaineering boots, one should propably consider <a title="Silvretta 500's" href="http://www.silvretta.de/products.php?chid=7&amp;m=4&amp;lang=uk&amp;sid=e0ac313e327bace13298f4d636389b3c&amp;prid=13&amp;ac=det">Silvretta 500&#8242;s</a>. They&#8217;ll fit almost on any boot, but for obvious reasons aren&#8217;t that good for ski-ing.</p>
<p>I guess I need to start working harder in order to save enough money for all of this. <img src='http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Starting ice climbing &#8211; to get started and essential gear</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2009/01/starting-ice-climbing-essential-gear/45</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2009/01/starting-ice-climbing-essential-gear/45#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[equipment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tips and tricks]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[axe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[basics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Beal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[belay device]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[carabiner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[crampons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[down]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[essential]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gear]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[getting started]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grivel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[harness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Petzl]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rambo]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[risk]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=45</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you consider starting ice climbing? Do you wonder what kind of gear you should get and how much does it cost? Well, this post is for those of you who do. Though, ice climbing is being placed in to extreme end of extreme sports, in some circles, even more so than rock climbing, it [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you consider starting ice climbing? Do you wonder what kind of gear you should get and how much does it cost? Well, this post is for those of you who do.</p>
<p>Though, ice climbing is being placed in to extreme end of extreme sports, in some circles, even more so than rock climbing, it doesn&#8217;t have to be so extreme. It&#8217;s very much like in any other climbing activity. Extremeness depends on how do you do it and what kind of risks you&#8217;re willing to accept. If you use just top rope, use eye protection (large portion of serious ice climbing injuries are eye injuries), be very careful while selecting, approaching and building belay anchors, ice climbing is very safe. This being said, again like any outdoor climbing sport, ice climbing certainly poses a risk of death or serious injury.</p>
<p>So, how to get started then? First of all, you need to get basic knowledge about climbing. In essence this includes belaying and figure-eight-loop-type of knots. Once you know the basics, you should either take ice climbing class or find someone who has some ice climbing experience and can teach you the basics of ice. If you haven&#8217;t been climbing directly with training qualified ice climber, I would recommend taking few classes anyways. It&#8217;s just so much easier and safer after you have. Here in Finland for instance some climbing associations, like mine (<a title="Climbing association of Oulu web site" href="http://www.climbing.fi/oks91">OKS91</a>) arranges very affordable classes (about 50-70€ / head, including equipment). I would imagine that the situation isn&#8217;t so different in other parts of the world.</p>
<p>Another frequent comment about ice climbing is the cost of the ice climbing equipment. It&#8217;s true that equipment is fairly expensive, especially if you&#8217;re buying full, lead climb, capable set alone. Some climbing associations, like mine (<a title="Climbing association of Oulu web site" href="http://www.climbing.fi/oks91">OKS91</a>), rent equipment, which is very easy and cost-effective way to start with. In our case rental price is just about 10-20€/day. From this perspective ice climbing is actually cheaper than for instance say skiing, where lift tickets are fairly expensive.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re getting in to sport deeper, you&#8217;ll probably end up buying set of equipment. Below is my suggestion of what to buy in each phase of your ice climbing career and rough estimate about price of each piece listed. In addition to listed items you need normal winter sports clothing + hiking / backpacking gear. Please note also that this is not necessarily complete list and reflects heavily my preferences. There are plenty of other good products and brands out there as well as plenty of unnecessary stuff. Many climbers also create their own accessories.</p>
<p><strong>Phase 1 &#8211; absolutely needed (i.e. typically not available for rental):</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>50-70m of try treated single rope, for instance <a title="Beal climbing ropes" href="http://www.bealplanet.com/portail-2006/index.php?page=cordes_escalade&amp;lang=us">Beal, Joker 9,1 mm x 60 m, Golden DRY</a> is a good choice &#8211;&gt; 100-150€</li>
<li>2 long slings, <a title="Black Diamond Dynex runers" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/dynex_runners.php">Black Diamond Runner, Dynex, 10 mm, 120 cm</a> is a good choice &#8211;&gt; 10-15€/each</li>
<li>2 medium slings, <a title="Black Diamond Dynex runers" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/dynex_runners.php">Black Diamond Runner, Dynex, 10 mm, 60 cm</a> is a good choice &#8211;&gt; 7-12€/each</li>
<li>60cm of 7mm prusik rope &#8211;&gt; 2-5€</li>
<li>1 Backpack, anything will do, if you&#8217;d like to get a really good try for instance <a title="Grivel Alpine 55 + 15 backpack" href="http://www.grivel.com/Products/Dettaglio_zaini.asp?ID=20">Grivel Alpine 55 + 15 </a>(smaller ones are good as well, but if you&#8217;ll buy larger, it will accommodate ropes and other gear you will need at multi pitch routes later on) &#8211;&gt; 120-150€</li>
</ul>
<p>Total: 256-359€</p>
<p><strong>Phase 2 &#8211; climbing basics:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>1 harness, <a title="Petzl Corax harness" href="http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=160">Petzl Corax</a> is a good choice &#8211;&gt; 50-70€</li>
<li>1 Helmet with visor, <a title="Petzl Elios Vizion" href="http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=108">Petzl Elios Vizion</a> is a good choice, some times the helmet and visor is being sold separately &#8211;&gt; 70-110€</li>
<li>1 Belay device, <a title="Petzl Reverso3" href="http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=653">Petzl Reverso3</a> is a good multipurpose choice &#8211;&gt; 30-35€</li>
<li>1 large locking carabiner, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Petzl William carabiner" href="http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=581">Petzl Williams</a> (though you should select screw gate instead of ball-lock since ball-locks tend to freeze, I don&#8217;t have experience on their triact version) &#8211;&gt; 8-15€</li>
<li>2 regular or small locking carabiners, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Black Diamond Positron screwgate carabiner" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/positron_screw.php">Black Diamond Positron screwgates</a>, though if you&#8217;d like light, you should turn in to <a title="Wild Country Neon keylock screwgate carabiner" href="http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/Products/Karabiners/NeonScrewgate/">Wild Country Neon keylock screwgate</a> &#8211;&gt; 8-12€/each</li>
</ul>
<p>Total: 174-254€</p>
<p><strong>Phase 3 &#8211; ice climbing basics:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Mountaineering boots, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Boreal web site" href="http://www.e-boreal.com/ing/comienzo.htm">Boreal</a> G1&#8242;s, but if you&#8217;re not going on high mountains, you might consider something lighter &#8211;&gt; 270-370€</li>
<li>Crampons, <a title="Grivel - Rambo 4" href="http://www.grivel.com/Products/Dettaglio_ramponi.asp?ID=15">Girvel Rambo 4</a> is a very good choice, which incorporates double point stability in to benefits of monopoint &#8211;&gt; 120-170€</li>
<li>Crampon pouch, <a title="Grivel crampon accessories" href="http://www.grivel.com/Products/tabella_ramponi_news.asp">Grivel crampon bag</a> has served me just fine &#8211;&gt; 10-15€</li>
<li>Ice axes, I would choose now <a title="Grivel Xmonster axes" href="http://www.grivel.com/Products/Dettaglio_piccozze.asp?ID=21">Grivel Xmonster axes</a>, though beginers might consider also axes with leashes &#8211;&gt; 160-240€/pair</li>
<li>A good headlamp, <a title="Petzl Tikka XP headlamp" href="http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Produit=555">Petzl Tikka XP</a> is a good choice &#8211;&gt; 40-60€</li>
<li>Gaiters, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Black Diamond GTX front point gaiters" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/gtx_frontpoint.php">Black Diamond GTX front point gaiters</a> &#8211;&gt;60-80€</li>
</ul>
<p>Total: 660-935€</p>
<p><strong>Phase 4 &#8211; practicing lead climbs and anchors:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>5 standard length (19cm) ice screws, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Black Diamond Turbo Express screws" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/turbo_express.php">Black Diamond Turbo Express</a> screws &#8211;&gt; 50-60€/each</li>
<li>2 short slings, <a title="Black Diamond Dynex runers" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/dynex_runners.php">Black Diamond Runner, Dynex, 10 mm, 120 cm</a> is a good choice &#8211;&gt; 5-7€/each</li>
<li>1 long sling, <a title="Black Diamond Dynex runers" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/dynex_runners.php">Black Diamond Runner, Dynex, 10 mm, 30 cm</a> is a good choice &#8211;&gt; 10-15€/each</li>
<li>5 quick draws, <a title="Wild Country Helium quickdraws and carabiners" href="http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/Products/Karabiners/Helium/">Wild Country Helium</a> quickdraws are most likely the best at the moment &#8211;&gt; 70-100€/set of 5</li>
<li>1 large locking carabiner, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Petzl William carabiner" href="http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=581">Petzl Williams</a> (though you should select screw gate instead of ball-lock since ball-locks tend to freeze, I don&#8217;t have experience on their triact version) &#8211;&gt; 8-15€</li>
<li>2 small or medium sized carabiners, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Black Diamond Positron screwgate carabiner" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/positron_screw.php">Black Diamond Positron screwgates</a>, though if you&#8217;d like light, you should turn in to <a title="Wild Country Neon keylock screwgate carabiner" href="http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/Products/Karabiners/NeonScrewgate/">Wild Country Neon keylock screwgate</a> &#8211;&gt; 8-12€/each</li>
<li>2 screw clippers, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Petzl Caritool" href="http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=489">Petzl Caritools</a> &#8211;&gt; 5-7€/each</li>
<li>1 climbing gloves, <a title="Black Diamond Enforcer gloves" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/enforcer.php">Black Diamond Enforcers</a> should be a good choice &#8211;&gt; 120-180€</li>
<li>1 Fifi hook, use for instance <a title="Black Diamond fifi hook" href="http://www.bdel.com/gear/fifi_hook.php">Black Diamond fifi hook</a> &#8211;&gt; 8-15€</li>
<li>1m of 7mm prusik rope &#8211;&gt; 3-6€</li>
</ul>
<p>Total: 505€-683€</p>
<p><strong>Phase 5 &#8211; lead climbs:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>3 standard length (19cm) ice screws, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Black Diamond Turbo Express screws" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/turbo_express.php">Black Diamond Turbo Express</a> screws &#8211;&gt; 50-60€/each</li>
<li>2 short (13cm) ice screws, I&#8217;ve used <a title="Black Diamond Turbo Express screws" href="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/turbo_express.php">Black Diamond Turbo Express</a> screws &#8211;&gt; 50-60€/each</li>
<li>5 quick draws, <a title="Wild Country Helium quickdraws and carabiners" href="http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/Products/Karabiners/Helium/">Wild Country Helium</a> quickdraws are most likely the best at the moment &#8211;&gt; 70-100€/set of 5</li>
<li>Set of half ropes, preferably in different colours so that you can distinguish left from right, <a title="Beal climbing ropes" href="http://www.bealplanet.com/portail-2006/index.php?page=cordes_escalade&amp;lang=us">Beal Ice Line</a> half ropes are just fine &#8211;&gt; 130-160€/each</li>
<li>1 First aid kit &#8211;&gt; 20-60€</li>
<li>A large down jacket, <a title="Millet Expert down jacket" href="http://www.milletusa.com/catalogue/expert-down-jkt-p-87.html?typo_prod=1:us&amp;temp=1&amp;cPath=1_4_10_14">Millet Expert down jacket</a> is a good choice, select a large size, so that you can wear it on top of everything else while belaying &#8211;&gt; 230-300€</li>
</ul>
<p>Total: 830-1080€</p>
<p><strong>Phase 6 &#8211; multi-pitch routes:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Few pitons &#8211;&gt; 5-15€/each</li>
<li>Few nuts / hexes &#8211;&gt; 8-15€/each</li>
<li>Set of walky-talkies &#8211;&gt; 50-150€</li>
<li>Small climbing backpack, <a title="Grivel Manu backpack" href="http://www.grivel.com/Products/Dettaglio_zaini.asp?ID=9">Grivel Manu</a> is my favourite &#8211;&gt; 40-60€</li>
<li>10m of 7mm prusik rope, cut and tied in to long prusik loops &#8211;&gt; 7-15€</li>
</ul>
<p>Total: 162-375€</p>
<p><strong>Few equpment images below:<br />
</strong>
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								<img title="petzl_elios_vizion.jpg" alt="petzl_elios_vizion.jpg" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/equipment-close-ups/thumbs/thumbs__mg_9368_0.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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								<img title="boreal_g1_expedition_boots.jpg" alt="boreal_g1_expedition_boots.jpg" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/equipment-close-ups/thumbs/thumbs__mg_9365_0.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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			<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/equipment-close-ups/_mg_9378_0.jpg" title="Wildcountry Helium quickdraw, note the different colors of carabiners, which indicate the screw side and rope side." class="shutterset_set_5" >
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								<img title="wildcountry_helium_quickdraw_closeup-3.jpg" alt="wildcountry_helium_quickdraw_closeup-3.jpg" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/equipment-close-ups/thumbs/thumbs__mg_9380_0.jpg" width="200" height="150" />
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