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	<title>Climbing Extreme &#187; Extrem</title>
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	<description>Just for ice climbing.</description>
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		<title>In search for ideal ice climbing glove</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/in-search-for-ideal-ice-climbing-glove/474</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/in-search-for-ideal-ice-climbing-glove/474#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 May 2010 09:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[clothing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[equipment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Armortan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Berghaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Black Diamond]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Enforcer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Extrem]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fleece]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gloves]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gore-Tex]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grivel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ice Breaker]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ice fall]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[merino]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mits]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[palm]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pittards]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[review]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Salomon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[stitching]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Taa-k-oon]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the most difficult issues in terms of ice climbing related gear is the selection of right gloves. Over the years I have tried dozens of different gloves in all sorts of climbing conditions. I have climbed with my friends in temperatures ranging from +5 to -30 degrees in Celsius. We have climbed in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most difficult issues in terms of ice climbing related gear is the selection of right gloves. Over the years I have tried dozens of different gloves in all sorts of climbing conditions. I have climbed with my friends in temperatures ranging from +5 to -30 degrees in Celsius. We have climbed in sunny weather, in rain, in snow storms, had short easy approaches and a bit more difficult ones. I have literally worn to pieces dozens of gloves. There have been pairs that lasted two seasons in decent shape (hardly ever longer) and some that have ripped apart during their first day.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/broken-gear/img_0113.jpg" title="Beghaus Extrem ski touring gloves, note the patched fingers." class="shutterset_singlepic436" >
	<img class="ngg-singlepic ngg-left" src="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/436__450x_img_0113.jpg" alt="img_0113" title="img_0113" />
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<br />
<small>Picture above: Beghaus Extrem ski touring gloves.</small></p>
<p>The requirements for a good ice climbing gloves are diverse and often contradictory. The durability, especially on palm side and fingers is a must. Dexterity, especially when dealing with screws, is required. To make the subject even more difficult there&#8217;s dozens of variables in play. One must take into account the weather and climbing conditions; even small things such as gear that&#8217;s been used, affect the situation heavily. Gloves should be simultaneously wildly breathable, but offer enough warmth and protection from the elements and at the times freely flowing water. In short, even though most of you (ice climbers) probably know already quite a bit of gloves, I thought to share some of my insights and experiences on the topic; I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s possible to know too much about it. <img src='http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><strong>General instructions for glove selection</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><em>You need to have several pairs of them -</em> One pair of breathables for approaches, one pair for climbing and one pair to have a dry pair just in case. Typically I will carry even fourth extra warm pair of mitts, especially if it&#8217;s cold, for belaying and hanging around. Sometimes, in very cold conditions, I might carry fifth thin wool pair to provide extra warmth under the standard pair. Furthermore you probably need a different primary climbing glove pair for cold and warm days.</li>
<li><em>The ones that you use for climbing need to be super durable</em> - Check the palm side, the extra protected area needs to be extra large and durable enough to take the sliding rope and axes. The protected area should reach from fingers to the top of the hand. Pay attention to stitching and seams, which are usually the weak spots. Typically, in high quality glove, extra durable materials, such as Pittard Armortan on palm itself and Kevlar on palm stitching, are being used.</li>
<li><em>The primary climbing pair needs to be able to deal with the water</em> - This means most likely Gore-Tex or some similar water proofing in the glove, and such wrist that can be put on top of the jacket. Well, the wrist part is matter of preference in some extent, but I like to route the water on top of my jacket instead of inside of it. Furthermore there are some other ways of dealing with water, such as neoprene, but as said, I prefer water proof. Also if you KNOW that there will be very little or no liquid water (either flowing or in form of rain / wet snow), you could think of something more breathable (=less water proof).</li>
<li><em>They need to be dexterous</em> - The basic principle in climbing cold conditions in order to avoid frost bites is that you wear your gloves all the times. You pour and drink your tea, eat your bread while wearing them, you belay and place your screws while wearing them; you tie the knots while wearing them. Though it&#8217;s partly a matter of learning it is also a matter of glove as well. Try to find a pair that feels as dexterous as possible.</li>
<li><em>Try them out and perhaps several pairs</em> - Gloves tend to vary from glove to glove slightly, choose the pair that gives the best feeling and dexterity while trying. Preferably try them with your ice tools, as glove padding and some of the axe fangs and triggers might not fit together well.</li>
<li><em>Pay attention to details</em> - There needs to be easy way to dry them up (how do you hang them?) and they should be washable. Some people (including I) like ones that have some padding to protect the fingers from bruises. It&#8217;s not a bad idea to consider as primary climbing glove, at least for cold days, something that has removable lining and a cord that attaches them to your wrists (you don&#8217;t like to lose them when there&#8217;s an hour down and three hours up).</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Some practical glove experiences / reviews:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><em>Black Diamond Enforcer gloves</em> &#8211; My current primary climbing glove. They are warm; the protective area on palm side is large enough and extends to the fingers. There&#8217;s a removable Gore-Tex insert which makes the washing and drying easier. So far the best pair I&#8217;ve found.</li>
<li><em>Grivel Ice Fall gloves</em> &#8211; These were my number one primary climbing pair few seasons back. They&#8217;re made of strong enough materials, have finger protection and are water proof. Their overall quality is good. They could breathe better and certain parts of the palm stitching seem to be in areas that experience heavy wear. They’ve been a very good pair in deed. Note that Grivel sizing is extremely small; as a result you probably start trying something that&#8217;s at least one size bigger than your usual size.</li>
<li><em>Grivel Taa-k-oon gloves</em> &#8211; I&#8217;ve used these for approaches, cross country ski-in and in very rare occasions warm weather climbing. They are fairly breathable, offer good grip and plenty of dexterity. For me though, they&#8217;re too thin for climbing. It&#8217;s usually just too cold for them. They&#8217;ve served me well for several years though and seem to be good quality. Note the Grivel sizing.</li>
<li><em>Bergaus Extrem gloves</em> &#8211; My &#8220;dry pair&#8221;. They&#8217;re surprisingly warm and dexterous, the leather is soft and they breathe fairly well. I actually bought these to be my primary climbing gloves, but the problem was the fact that they weren&#8217;t hard enough for climbing; seams tear apart when stressed (there were several rips in less than two days of heavy use). I have also frequently used these for ski touring, which is ideal purpose for them (I guess that&#8217;s what they are designed for). Despite the design shortages (seam durability) from climbing perspective, they&#8217;re extremely good quality gloves.</li>
<li><em>Ice Breaker Merino Liner gloves</em> &#8211; Liners to add extra warmth during the coldest days of winter. They&#8217;re good though add more bulk when worn under Enforcers.</li>
<li><em>Salomon Mitts (don&#8217;t know the type)</em> &#8211; I&#8217;ve used Salomon mitts mainly for belaying and while standing around on very cold days. They&#8217;re extremely warm, but the materials aren&#8217;t water proof and they aren&#8217;t durable enough for actual climbing. The slight problem with these is the fact that the material is so thin, that they can get stuck in to your belay device.</li>
<li><em>Unknown Fleece / Fiber Fill breathable gloves</em> &#8211; I&#8217;ve used these mainly for approaches on cold days. They&#8217;re warm, light and breathable, but not very durable &#8211; a cheapest option of adding warmth for summer mountaineering at Kebnekaise few years back (forgot to bring any gloves). Did the trick and have been in frequent use even though the quality hasn&#8217;t been perfect.</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Few images of gloves:<br />
</strong>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Weak spots of quality gear</title>
		<link>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/weak-spots-of-quality-gear/494</link>
		<comments>http://www.climbingextreme.com/2010/05/weak-spots-of-quality-gear/494#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 11:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>juho</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[accessories]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[clothing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[equipment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tips and tricks]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[backpack]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Berghaus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Black Diamond]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bottle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[crampons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Extrem]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gloves]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grivel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[harness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Helium]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ice Clipper]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manu]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[North Face]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[problem]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Wild Country]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climbingextreme.com/?p=494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some time ago I reviewed Wild Country Helium quickdraws. At the time I just couldn&#8217;t find anything negative on them. I&#8217;ve used the quickdraws happily ever after. They&#8217;ve been great, but since the first article I have discovered some weaknesses too. The realization of the fact that quite a few pieces of quality gear also [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some time ago I reviewed Wild Country Helium quickdraws. At the time I just couldn&#8217;t find anything negative on them. I&#8217;ve used the quickdraws happily ever after. They&#8217;ve been great, but since the first article I have discovered some weaknesses too. The realization of the fact that quite a few pieces of quality gear also have several weaknesses led me to write this piece. At this point I want to stress the fact that each of the products and brands described in this article are extremely good and I could recommend any of them. Still I feel that it is important for climbers to realize the limitations and weaknesses of their gear and how to go around the weaknesses. Furthermore I feel that it is important that the manufactures hear the feedback from the field.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.climbingextreme.com/wp-content/gallery/broken-gear/img_0110.jpg" title="" class="shutterset_singlepic435" >
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</a>
<br />
<small>Picture above: Broken Wild Country Helium.</small></p>
<p><strong>1. Berghaus Extrem gloves</strong><br />
Seams seem to tear apart in heavy use, especially with ropes. They would be great gloves, I love their dexterity and warmth but as their seams may tear apart during a single day, they just aren&#8217;t an option for ice climbing. Even while ski touring one needs to be careful when ever handling ropes.</p>
<p><strong>2. Grivel Rambo 4 crampons</strong><br />
The yellow plastic of the active antibots breaks apart easily from its attachment; harder black plastic. I&#8217;ve seen this happen practically in every pair of Rambo&#8217;s I&#8217;ve seen. Despite the problem they&#8217;re best ice climbing crampons I know, and with a bit of patience one can fix the problem temporarily by pushing the plastic part back in place.</p>
<p><strong>3. Wild Country Helium Quickdraws</strong><br />
The anti-slip rubber of Helium Quickdraws is too &#8220;hard&#8221; and therefore breaks in below zero temperatures from the stitching seam. I have a set of five of these and it has happened on everyone except one. Different type of rubber, for instance such that&#8217;s been used in Black Diamon&#8217;s Positrons would probably fix the problem. Though I like Heliums, they&#8217;re not currently the first choice for an ice climber.</p>
<p><strong>4. Sigg Bottle cap</strong><br />
Threads of the cap get eaten by the bottle. To prevent this bottle should not be filled too full, the cap should not be tightened too tight and one should not allow the bottle to freeze.</p>
<p><strong>5. North Face Summit Series Gore-Tex XCR jacket</strong><br />
The watertight zippers of the jacket wear down quite fast in below zero temperatures, especially if there&#8217;s plenty of use for the zippers.</p>
<p><strong>6. Black Diamond Ice Clippers and their Xenos ice climbing harness</strong><br />
Ice Clippers slip through the clipper holders of Xenos after a while. In order to avoid that one should avoid too heavy loads (>five screws) and bending the clippers while packing it up. Still if the lip of the Ice Clipper would be just a bit longer or the clipper holder in the harness just a bit stiffer, it would work perfectly.</p>
<p><strong>7. Grivel Manu backpack</strong><br />
The Manu concept, detachable gear loops, is great and I&#8217;m using it frequently. The problem though is that with the gear loops only (i.e. backpack removed) the velcro on the back of the gear loops sticks to everything and cause for instance slings to wear faster than I would hope. An extra sheet of something to put on top of the velcro will fix the problem, but perhaps that could integrated to the Manu somehow too.</p>
<p><strong>Few images about the products mentioned:<br />
</strong>
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</p>
<p>Any comments and experiences of similar weak spots are greatly appreciated. I&#8217;m sure there are plenty of such around. It&#8217;s a great help for fellow climbers to be aware of them.</p>
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